these taxes the president wants. if begive him all tax increases it pays for 8 and a half days of government. it doesn't do anything for middle class it will destroy middle class job creation. the more we tell people that the stronger we will be in being able to negotiate a solution moving forward. >> bill: handicap it real quick, is it going to happen or go into january with chaos? >> at a minimum what i hope is that we'll be able to do something here that avoids this fiscal cliff which is a creation of congress. it's a bipartisan creation. this fiscal cliff is the result of the last fiscal cliff. >> bill: that put a date on there. >> yeah. >> bill: may extend the date that's what i think is going to happen. >> my hope is is that we can avoid the bad stuff. then we have to deal with the 16 trillion-dollar debt that $1 trillion a year in deficit spending. we have to solve that. that thing is not going to solve itself. >> bill: doesn't feel like the president feels the urgency that you feel. you are one of the leaders